I had a previous post, in which I said the new Mormon movie Saints and Soldiers is the best one yet.
Toward the end of last week, the MPAA gave this movie an R rating. The producer and director appealed the rating, but the MPAA's appeals board has to have a two-thirds vote in order to overrule the original assigned rating. Well, the producer and director lost by two votes. This means that if the movie makers want a lighter rating, they have to edit content before resubmitting the movie. As it is, it's stuck with the big bad R.
This movie has won numerous awards and has participated in around 15 film festivals. The producer and director have quite the dilemma here. If they don't edit the movie, they loose a huge chunk of their audience. If they do edit the movie, it compromises the integrity of the film. You can't release a movie saying it's won many awards, when the movie you're releasing is different from the movie that won the awards. You follow?
So the question of the day is… What do you think the makers of this movie should do?
I think they should release it as is. If it really is that great and the reasons for the "R" are necessary (and it could be, I just don't know a thing about it), and people don't go soley based on the rating, that's their choice. Personally, I think the "R" statements from GAs are a guideline and I judge every movie based on it's merits. This means I eliminate a lot of PG-13 movies and occaisonally see R's. It's a quality issue.
Posted by: Renee at 01:43 PM on February 10, 2004The problem is that the Mormon market already is small with most films barely breaking even if they make a profit at all.
With a R-rating you cut out enough of your market that they probably can't make money. While it is nice to speak in the abstract about ideals, the fact is when a million dollars are invested of other peoples money you also have responsibilities.
I expect this to be edited and then perhaps have two versions on DVD.
Posted by: Clark Goble at 02:27 PM on February 10, 2004Bob, if it's really as good as you say it is, I'm hoping that it can get a wider national distribution. That way the R rating wouldn't be a huge deal (and I could see it in New York!).
Posted by: Logan at 06:21 PM on February 10, 2004That's too bad. The ratings system is so messed up and political the difference between a PG-13 and R can be meaningless or even reversed in some cases. Now that it has been announced that "The Passion" is going to be rated "R", should even those of us who do not see rated R movies frown upon a literal portrayal of the last 12 hours of the life of the Savior? I have not gone to see an R movie since I was married (my wife keeps me in line) but it seems to me that it would be hard to say that this movie is not worth seeing.
Posted by: David Sundwall at 04:33 PM on February 11, 2004When the Prophet says "No R Movies", I don't think there is any question about whether an R rated movie is good to watch. The gray area doesn't even start until the PG-13 rating. Some PG-13 movies should be avoided. It may seem like a "peter priesthood" attitude, but seeing any R rated movie, no matter its content, is a direct violation of a commandment from the Prophet.
I don't think there is any excuse for making an R rated movie either, especially not one targeting the LDS population. If it flops because of its rating, I can't say I'll be sad. They should know better.
I, for one, will not see this movie unless it is edited.
Posted by: Daniel at 02:56 PM on February 13, 2004Daniel-
You and I have been really good friends for some time now. Amazingly enough, we've never "officially" discussed the "Rated R Dilemma", although indirectly we've both known how we each feel. It's often times hard for friends to confront each other on issues where they differ so intensely. But that's a conversation for another time. It sufficeth to say, you could say a dozen more comments like your last one, and it wouldn't affect our friendship at all.
But since you brought up the subject so boldly, I can't hold back the desire to point out certain flaws in your reasoning:
1) "A direct violation of a commandment from the Prophet" To which prophet are you referring? I can only assume President Benson, as he is the only prophet in this dispensation to use the term "R Movies" in a General Conference. If you throw in Apostles and Seventy, you'd have a dozen or so conference talks. Trust me, I've looked it up.
So if this is the case, have you looked at the context of his talk from the 80s? For being official Church doctrine or a "commandment" for the whole Church, it's funny that he specifically said it was counsel for the youth. And he only said it in a Priesthood session!
2) "I don't think there is any excuse for making an R rated movie either" I'm not sure if this was your intention, but you can not assume that people "purposely" make a movie to fit a particular rating. In the case of the movie in question, Saints and Soldiers, Ryan Little and Adam Abel specifically studied PG-13 war movies like Pearl Harbor to make sure their violence wouldn't be considered excessive. They WANTED a PG-13 desperately, and were shocked to be given an R. Isn't this example further proof of the inconsistency of the rating system? If you can’t study the system and make a PG-13 war movie, it may be the arbitrary nature in which ratings are assigned.
3) The prophet (or Church) would never give a commandment that is based solely on a US “gentile” organization for two reasons: A) More than half the Church would not understand this commandment, as they are outside the US and have no idea what the rating system means. Take my wife, for example, when she first came to the States it took her quite some time to figure out this uniquely Mormon-American life style. Speaking of which, Daniel, in Mexico, did you ever teach members not to see “R rated” movies? I doubt it. How important could this mystery commandment be if you and I, as missionaries, never made mention of it in two years? B) Why would the prophet delegate the assignment of appropriate media content to a third party institution unaware of our Church's standards?
4) To make my third point even more clear, let me remind you that I've done multiple research papers on this subject and can tell you that the rating system is largely the fabrications of one man's mind, Jack Valenti. His system has been under fire since its inception in 1968. But he stands firm in saying, "The basic mission of the rating system is a simple one: to offer to parents some advance information about movies so that parents can decide what movies they want their children to see or not to see." Isn't that coincidental? Valenti saying the system is geared toward parents making decisions for their CHILDREN and Benson speaking directly to the YOUTH with his "no R" quote? The rating system (like the Benson quote) was never intended for adults. Of course, a person is welcome to use it that way, if he/she wants.
Let me just get down off my soapbox to say a few more things. If someone like you, Daniel, decided to not watch rated R movies, I think he/she should be commended for his/her personal decision. I have no problem with members of the Church using this as a means to having higher standards. It can be a very good thing. You’re definitely avoiding a lot of garbage out there. Where my problem lies, if it wasn’t obvious, is in the assumption that a new “commandment” has been released (with absolutely no exceptions) that applies to all mankind.
If you feel comfortable thinking of it as a commandment, we may just have to “agree to disagree”, as they say. But no big deal, I’m sure we’ll still be friends for the rest of our lives (and then some). :-)
Whoah, I wrote this very quickly in a sort of stream-of-conscienceness way. I apologize for the long-winded feel.
By the way, I'd be interested in seeing a post by Hollywood Bob previewing/reviewing/predicting the Oscars.
Posted by: Logan at 03:52 PM on February 14, 2004Logan, it's already in the works... stay tuned!
Posted by: Bob Caswell at 04:08 PM on February 14, 2004Bob, thanks for the comments (and the excuse to post again).
The 'Benson Quote' is probably the most notable and most remembered statement on r-rated movies; and, yes, it was stated for the youth in a priesthood meeting. But, if its good for the youth, isn't it good for everyone? Just in case there is any question, here are some other statements that show that it applies to everyone:
For the Brothers
Now, brethren of the priesthood, there should not be any X- or R-rated movies that we participate in viewing or talking about. There must be no pornographic magazines, pictures, or stories, no re-telling of filthy jokes or crude experiences. Once in a while we should stop and ask ourselves, “In whose army are we fighting? Whose battle lines are we defending?” Do you have the courage to walk out of an off-color PG-rated movie—or do you watch and listen, and suggest to yourself, “This soon will pass,” or “Everyone is doing it; it must be an acceptable type of entertainment”?
Bishop H. Burke Peterson
First Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric
H. Burke Peterson, “Purify Our Minds and Spirits,” Ensign, Nov. 1980, 37
For the Engaged and Newly-Wed
All too often, we get ourselves enmeshed in the process of trying to understand why God gave us a particular commandment. We want to rationalize. I don’t know where that is more evident than in watching movies. Young people know they should not watch R- or X-rated movies, and yet time after time I hear them say, “Well it’s only rated R because it’s violent.” What difference does it make why it is rated R? The fact is, a prophet of God has said not to go to R-rated movies (see, for example, Ezra Taft Benson, “To the ‘Youth of the Noble Birthright,’ ” Ensign, May 1986, 45). That ought to be good enough.
Elder Cree-L Kofford
Of the Seventy
Cree-L Kofford, “Marriage in the Lord’s Way, Part Two,” Ensign, July 1998, 15
For the Sisters
Do we show our love to the Lord if we spend our time at R-rated movies, reading pornographic material, or involving ourselves in activities that would be degrading or unbecoming a daughter of God?
Mary Ellen W. Smoot
Relief Society General President
Mary Ellen W. Smoot, “Steadfast and Immovable,” Ensign, Nov. 2001, 91
So we can see that it is important, not just to the youth of the church, but to all members of the church.
There seems to be some disagreement as to whether avoiding R-rated movies is counsel or commandment. I say that it does not matter. The end result is the same. We are blessed for following both counsel and commandments. We are punished for disregarding both counsel and commandments. Nephi wrote: O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainess, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the COUNSEL OF GOD, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. AND THEY SHALL PERISH. 2ne 9:28. see also D&C 3:4 I don't think that this is necessarily PERISH material here, but severity is not the focus of the discussion. In other words, for all intents and purposes, we might as well assume that no R-rated movies is a commandment.
Perhaps it seems strange to have a commandment reference a 'gentile' institution, and whether or not the producers of the movie did intend for the movie to receive an R rating, I don't know; I am sorry that the rating board is not more fair with its ratings. But apparently, someone thought the rating was required. We, as members of the church, are supposed to set an example. Remember the whole 'light of the world' and 'appearance of evil' things. We are supposed to be better than 'the world'. Let's set our standards high.
I believe that there are two parts to this commandment. First, avoid movies (and other media) with bad content. Second, don't see R-rated movies. These are not mutually exclusive or substitutes. They are both important considerations when selecting a movie. If a G-rated movie (for example) should really be R, then we shouldn't see it, in spite of its rating. We all seem to know this. However, even if an R-rated movie were as tame as "Finding Nemo", it would still be a direct violation of a commandment of God.
I hope that the producers of the movie decide to tone things down to receive a lower rating. It sounds like a great movie.
Well, I guess I'm down to 10 bold comments before we're not friends anymore, huh Bob? Just let me know when I'm about to run out.
Posted by: Daniel at 02:01 AM on February 16, 2004